when i think that Jesus looks to me for help
i feel ashamed
i become very quiet
very small
i don't compare my self to others
i am not worthy of that
rather Jesus is my standard
impossible as it might seem
i must shoot for the Son
anything else is
shameful
silencing
humiliating
Jesus himself pointed to the truth of looking to be like God when he said
' be perfect just like your father in heaven is perfect ' ..
impossible
even if the perfection here refers to maturity
but
i cultivate a mindfulness that says to me
be like God
be like Jesus
that's my goal
has to be
anything else is, to me anyway, a lie
a waste
a casual, dismissive wave of the hand to my lifevalue
however humble that value
and a veritable slap in the face of my Elder Brother
the Man himself
my Lord
.. lord
= lord
anything else is another stepping-stone-life failure on the high way to heaven ..
church history is filled with them
and tellingly church leaders could well be the main offenders
and the main purveyors
the instigators
certainly
me
i am a follower
not a leader
i follow Jesus
and prettymuch as long as i can keep that upfront in my dull and stubborn head
i stand at least a chance of someone seeing something - a speck even - of my rabbi in me
and that is worth a lot
that there gives hope for value in life
you can sit there and look at that bit of your life that said something to someone about jesus
and smile
and watch Jesus smile
Monday, June 30, 2014
back to basics ..
sometime we
as in i
forget
we forget God
kinda
we forget the spiritual nature of ... God stuff
we forget that things really aren't what they look like to the natural mind
and that reality lies outside the as-you-see-it
we forget the crazy born-from-above newbirth that drives the whole thing
that creates new creations who are energized and motivated from within
by a Godpower that is without
yet lives in us
we forget that prayer is a primary means of engaging God
and use it as a last-resort when all else fails and we've already tried the usual human means
like my smartness, my abilities, my contacts, and the most recent technology
and evidence-based data
we forget that God is himself in a battle and wants to use us as on-the-ground forces
we forget that ' it is not by might nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord of Hosts '
we forget that we are engaged primarily in a spiritual reality that belies what we see
and that we really are not in a struggle against people
but against dark spiritual powers and forces in the heavenlies that lie inback of that
powers that oppose the God we serve and the Jesus we follow
.. . .
at least i do
i forget
i need to remind my self regularly to back-out of the natural ( flesh )
and purposefully align with the spiritual
engaging those powers and my God in the spiritual warfare that underlies the movements and happenings around me
particularly as it concerns the church, the Body of Christ
the hands and feet and eyes and ears of Jesus on the ground
and all that that body is called to do and be involved in
and stop this relying on my own understanding
such that
i trust in the Lord
with all my heart
and don't lean on my own understanding of the way things are
but recognize and submit all my intentions and activities to him
that way he directs me, makes the way clear
because i'm doing it for him, under his authority, empowered by his spirit
( Proverbs 3.5,6 )
..
i
need
to remember
as in i
forget
we forget God
kinda
we forget the spiritual nature of ... God stuff
we forget that things really aren't what they look like to the natural mind
and that reality lies outside the as-you-see-it
we forget the crazy born-from-above newbirth that drives the whole thing
that creates new creations who are energized and motivated from within
by a Godpower that is without
yet lives in us
we forget that prayer is a primary means of engaging God
and use it as a last-resort when all else fails and we've already tried the usual human means
like my smartness, my abilities, my contacts, and the most recent technology
and evidence-based data
we forget that God is himself in a battle and wants to use us as on-the-ground forces
we forget that ' it is not by might nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord of Hosts '
we forget that we are engaged primarily in a spiritual reality that belies what we see
and that we really are not in a struggle against people
but against dark spiritual powers and forces in the heavenlies that lie inback of that
powers that oppose the God we serve and the Jesus we follow
.. . .
at least i do
i forget
i need to remind my self regularly to back-out of the natural ( flesh )
and purposefully align with the spiritual
engaging those powers and my God in the spiritual warfare that underlies the movements and happenings around me
particularly as it concerns the church, the Body of Christ
the hands and feet and eyes and ears of Jesus on the ground
and all that that body is called to do and be involved in
and stop this relying on my own understanding
such that
i trust in the Lord
with all my heart
and don't lean on my own understanding of the way things are
but recognize and submit all my intentions and activities to him
that way he directs me, makes the way clear
because i'm doing it for him, under his authority, empowered by his spirit
( Proverbs 3.5,6 )
..
i
need
to remember
Friday, June 27, 2014
good read - the christus victor approach to the atonement, part 2
http://reknew.org/2014/06/atonement-christus-victor-aslan-pt-2-who-demands-a-sacrifice/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=atonement-christus-victor-aslan-pt-2-who-demands-a-sacrifice
a link to part 1 is in the article ..
peace
a link to part 1 is in the article ..
peace
Wednesday, June 25, 2014
negativity, positivity, realism and hope ..
there's more than one side to life
it can whack you in the face one day, and inflate your ego the next ..
there's this thing i subscribe to
clarify
simplify
balance
centre
basically that translates into
see things for what they are based on the understanding i have; ie. be reasonable in my estimations
dump the excess, the unnecessary, the distractions
balance what's left
bring my self into balance
the balancing act is integral
i ran over this article today pointing to a book
a commenter referenced another book that took an opposing view to the article
and, being a bookworm, i ran to read reviews ..
interesting
both of them
the one posits the superiority of a positive approach, finding the silver lining
the other critiques this approach, identifying it as a false echo of reality, a denial, kinda ..
i hear both sides
and i see the value of both ..
and i'm left with balance
.. .. . . .
as a follower of Jesus i need to be mindful of his attitude and approach, since he's my rabbi
in the biblical Ecclesiastes ( chapter 3 ) is found the famous passage ' there's a time for .. '
as in, a time to laugh, and a time to cry, etc.
the comeuppance of that thinking is that life invokes both the good and the bad
Jesus, in his wellknown discourse on the mount, blessed the hurting, the underprivileged, the mourning and down-spirited, as well as those who long for righteousness and work for peace
his sense of balance inculcated both suffering and persecution as well as a positive, hopeful approach
( Matthew 5-7 )
richard rohr made the wise comment that Jesus lived perfectly within the balance of humanity in it's dilemma ..
" The cross was the price that Jesus paid for agreeing to live in a mixed world that was both human and divine, bad and good, simultaneously broken and utterly whole. He agreed to carry the mystery and not to demand perfection of God's creation or of God's creatures. He lived fully on the horns of the human dilemma and made it work for us ... It is in that sense only that Christianity is the ' only ' way to be 'saved' . "
... .
a balanced approach demands both a seeing of the reality of a broken and suffering world, as well as the ' hope ' of the Kingdom in which love rules
to deny either, in my view, is to do injustice to the reality of hurting people and/or to the God in whom i live and move and have my being
balancing those realities on the fulcrum of Jesus and the cross is my goal, my personal reality
to do otherwise is to fall into the whimsical fancy of cheering-on the houseless and the poor, for example, as if their condition was merely transitory or a not-so-serious lifeexperience
or to explode it as if it was ' the end of the world ' with no way out
Jesus life and death and resurrection from the dead provides me with the ability to accept and embrace the deathness of the world in which i live and, at the very same time, the reality that real life includes the divine, the spiritual, the hope of life after life ..
death and life
in balance
fallenness and reconciliation
in balance
¿ how can i morn with them that mourn, embrace their pain as if it were my own
which i believe jesus expects of me precisely
or rejoice with those that rejoice
if i pretend that either the pain inback of the mourning, or the joy that sparked the rejoicing are to be downplayed, like they're dreaming, or psychotic ?
disingenuous, that is ..
hope is the switch
hope
in God
creator
redeemer
liberator
lover
hope allows me to see the pain for what it is, embracing it as real
while not allowing it to overwhelm, as if it was the final word on life
the end
in the end, love wins
and i am included in that
and so are you
this world is so outofbalance
i am so outofblance
thank God for jesus' balancing act of the cross
it can whack you in the face one day, and inflate your ego the next ..
there's this thing i subscribe to
clarify
simplify
balance
centre
basically that translates into
see things for what they are based on the understanding i have; ie. be reasonable in my estimations
dump the excess, the unnecessary, the distractions
balance what's left
bring my self into balancethe balancing act is integral
i ran over this article today pointing to a book
a commenter referenced another book that took an opposing view to the article
and, being a bookworm, i ran to read reviews ..
interesting
both of them
the one posits the superiority of a positive approach, finding the silver lining
the other critiques this approach, identifying it as a false echo of reality, a denial, kinda ..
i hear both sides
and i see the value of both ..
and i'm left with balance
.. .. . . .
as a follower of Jesus i need to be mindful of his attitude and approach, since he's my rabbi
in the biblical Ecclesiastes ( chapter 3 ) is found the famous passage ' there's a time for .. '
as in, a time to laugh, and a time to cry, etc.
the comeuppance of that thinking is that life invokes both the good and the bad
Jesus, in his wellknown discourse on the mount, blessed the hurting, the underprivileged, the mourning and down-spirited, as well as those who long for righteousness and work for peace
his sense of balance inculcated both suffering and persecution as well as a positive, hopeful approach
( Matthew 5-7 )
richard rohr made the wise comment that Jesus lived perfectly within the balance of humanity in it's dilemma ..
" The cross was the price that Jesus paid for agreeing to live in a mixed world that was both human and divine, bad and good, simultaneously broken and utterly whole. He agreed to carry the mystery and not to demand perfection of God's creation or of God's creatures. He lived fully on the horns of the human dilemma and made it work for us ... It is in that sense only that Christianity is the ' only ' way to be 'saved' . "
... .
a balanced approach demands both a seeing of the reality of a broken and suffering world, as well as the ' hope ' of the Kingdom in which love rules
to deny either, in my view, is to do injustice to the reality of hurting people and/or to the God in whom i live and move and have my being
balancing those realities on the fulcrum of Jesus and the cross is my goal, my personal reality
to do otherwise is to fall into the whimsical fancy of cheering-on the houseless and the poor, for example, as if their condition was merely transitory or a not-so-serious lifeexperience
or to explode it as if it was ' the end of the world ' with no way out
Jesus life and death and resurrection from the dead provides me with the ability to accept and embrace the deathness of the world in which i live and, at the very same time, the reality that real life includes the divine, the spiritual, the hope of life after life ..
death and life
in balance
fallenness and reconciliation
in balance
¿ how can i morn with them that mourn, embrace their pain as if it were my own
which i believe jesus expects of me precisely
or rejoice with those that rejoice
if i pretend that either the pain inback of the mourning, or the joy that sparked the rejoicing are to be downplayed, like they're dreaming, or psychotic ?
disingenuous, that is ..
hope is the switch
hope
in God
creator
redeemer
liberator
lover
hope allows me to see the pain for what it is, embracing it as real
while not allowing it to overwhelm, as if it was the final word on life
the end
in the end, love wins
and i am included in that
and so are you
this world is so outofbalance
i am so outofblance
thank God for jesus' balancing act of the cross
Monday, June 23, 2014
everybody needs somebody ..
and then there's johnny ..
in my lifeswing i'm massively trying to undo some of the bullcrap i pulled on people
and on my self
my family bore the brunt of that i think
part of that newlife involves the houseless
and my battlefield is my naive mind
i somehow think things aren't as bad as they seem ..
half the time i don't even know how bad it is
..
noone really wants johnny around
he lives on drugs
sometimes he's so drugged he rides his bicycle into poles and walls
with bloody cuts as his comeuppance, cuts he doesn't even notice
noone really wants johnny around
he's a potentially damaging distraction
he could have negative effects on businesses
he is a perceived threat to schools and the elderly and women and ..
johnny is one of those people people want to just disappear
and noone would miss him
fact is, if anyone ever wondered what became of johnny, they'd probably breathe a sigh of relief
..
way i see it is i need to be jesus to johnny
i'd like him to think there's someone who will talk with him
listen
accept
hang with
that's tough for this judgemental, black/white, proud white christian man to do
but i have to
i have to
or i'm a liar
and i make jesus out to be a liar
i ' have to ' doesn't mean i ' have ' to
it simply means that jesus should be so much in control of my spirit that i see things the way they really are
and that means johnny is me, under different circumstances
if only i'd taken the left fork instead of the right
i could easily be johnny
and johnny is jesus
somewhere there, johnny bears the unmistakable image of God
the imago dei
mine is to find it, recognize it, embrace it
mine is to embrace johnny
even when he smells
when he looks dirty, with black hands and bleeding
when he can't sit still for 1 minute 'cause the drugs won't let him
when he rambles
johnny is me
i am johhny
johnny is jesus-in-hiding
i love johnny
there's no other way really
..
now to convince my self of that .. . . .
in my lifeswing i'm massively trying to undo some of the bullcrap i pulled on people
and on my self
my family bore the brunt of that i think
part of that newlife involves the houseless
and my battlefield is my naive mind
i somehow think things aren't as bad as they seem ..
half the time i don't even know how bad it is
..
noone really wants johnny around
he lives on drugs
sometimes he's so drugged he rides his bicycle into poles and walls
with bloody cuts as his comeuppance, cuts he doesn't even notice
noone really wants johnny around
he's a potentially damaging distraction
he could have negative effects on businesses
he is a perceived threat to schools and the elderly and women and ..
johnny is one of those people people want to just disappear
and noone would miss him
fact is, if anyone ever wondered what became of johnny, they'd probably breathe a sigh of relief
..
way i see it is i need to be jesus to johnny
i'd like him to think there's someone who will talk with him
listen
accept
hang with
that's tough for this judgemental, black/white, proud white christian man to do
but i have to
i have to
or i'm a liar
and i make jesus out to be a liar
i ' have to ' doesn't mean i ' have ' to
it simply means that jesus should be so much in control of my spirit that i see things the way they really are
and that means johnny is me, under different circumstances
if only i'd taken the left fork instead of the right
i could easily be johnny
and johnny is jesus
somewhere there, johnny bears the unmistakable image of God
the imago dei
mine is to find it, recognize it, embrace it
mine is to embrace johnny
even when he smells
when he looks dirty, with black hands and bleeding
when he can't sit still for 1 minute 'cause the drugs won't let him
when he rambles
johnny is me
i am johhny
johnny is jesus-in-hiding
i love johnny
there's no other way really
..
now to convince my self of that .. . . .
jesus on wisdom
a couple thoughts about wisdom
according to jesus ..
- be careful how reckless we are in judging others; we will one day be held to the same standard we used .. ' back at ya ' ; that's a sobering thought
or, be wise in the use of what we know, being wary of judging others at all
- the wisdom we have should be used; it is unwise to not use it
if we don't it will be taken from us
wisdom then, is to be displayed for its light, not hidden, like under the bed
it is critical to share it
the imprudence of not doing so will lead to losing what of it we had
additionally, when we share it more is given
we gain wisdom as we share the wisdom we are given
colloquially, it's a win/win situation
.. least, that's what came out of our church community discussion tonight, kinda
and it smacks of wisdom to me
matthew 5.14-16, and Mark 4. 21-25
according to jesus ..
- be careful how reckless we are in judging others; we will one day be held to the same standard we used .. ' back at ya ' ; that's a sobering thought
or, be wise in the use of what we know, being wary of judging others at all
- the wisdom we have should be used; it is unwise to not use it
if we don't it will be taken from us
wisdom then, is to be displayed for its light, not hidden, like under the bed
it is critical to share it
the imprudence of not doing so will lead to losing what of it we had
additionally, when we share it more is given
we gain wisdom as we share the wisdom we are given
colloquially, it's a win/win situation
.. least, that's what came out of our church community discussion tonight, kinda
and it smacks of wisdom to me
matthew 5.14-16, and Mark 4. 21-25
Sunday, June 22, 2014
¿ grab or let go .. ?
¿ could it be that the reason we rush to amass stuff is
we are afraid this is all there is to life
this is the life
the only life we have ?
the christian scriptures place great emphasis on faith
in Hebrews ( 11.6 ) it states, without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
it brings the unseen to light
it makes the possible real, gives credence to potential, provides evidence for the intangible
( Heb. 11.1 )
it changes us
we count God to be real by faith
we account that what the scriptures teach are valid through faith
we change our lives by faith in a God we cannot see/touch/hear
we open ourselves to the upside-downity of Jesus' teachings because we faith that this is right, even though it feels impossible and sounds crazy
like loving my enemy
.. . .
it may be that the reason i run to wealth and possessions and more-than-i-need is
my lack of faith
in a God
who promised to supply all my needs
if only i put his kingdom first
if only i rely solely on him
for everything
if i claim to be a christian, then my responsibility, my motivation derives from faith
faith that posits God is who he says he is
faith that sees my needs met
faith that responds ' i will trust God ' even when the darkness surrounds me, and i cannot see
faith that reaches out to help those in need when i myself am in need
faith that counts my life as nothing to hold on to, but to be relinquished in favour of Jesus
faith that rises each day in the hope of life fulfilled in the very presence of my creator
faith
drives us to see that what we see now is not all there is to be seen
that life extends beyond my vision
that life is best relinquished
rather than held on to
forsaken for the sake of others
reduced to the lowest common denominator
rather than enlarged into all-there-is/grab-all-the-gusto-now ..
i choose faith
and diss my take on life
because i understand my finitude
i know i don't know, and i believe there is someone there that does
that cares
that loves me
i choose that
i faith that
i live that
for the sake of the God that created me to be like him
and loves me so much that he allowed himself to be created in my image .. . . .
that is a god i can serve wholeheartedly
without being overly concerned for my stuff, for my tomorrows
.. peace
we are afraid this is all there is to life
this is the life
the only life we have ?
the christian scriptures place great emphasis on faith
in Hebrews ( 11.6 ) it states, without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
it brings the unseen to light
it makes the possible real, gives credence to potential, provides evidence for the intangible
( Heb. 11.1 )
it changes us
we count God to be real by faith
we account that what the scriptures teach are valid through faith
we change our lives by faith in a God we cannot see/touch/hear
we open ourselves to the upside-downity of Jesus' teachings because we faith that this is right, even though it feels impossible and sounds crazy
like loving my enemy
.. . .
it may be that the reason i run to wealth and possessions and more-than-i-need is
my lack of faith
in a God
who promised to supply all my needs
if only i put his kingdom first
if only i rely solely on him
for everything
if i claim to be a christian, then my responsibility, my motivation derives from faith
faith that posits God is who he says he is
faith that sees my needs met
faith that responds ' i will trust God ' even when the darkness surrounds me, and i cannot see
faith that reaches out to help those in need when i myself am in need
faith that counts my life as nothing to hold on to, but to be relinquished in favour of Jesus
faith that rises each day in the hope of life fulfilled in the very presence of my creator
faith
drives us to see that what we see now is not all there is to be seen
that life extends beyond my vision
that life is best relinquished
rather than held on to
forsaken for the sake of others
reduced to the lowest common denominator
rather than enlarged into all-there-is/grab-all-the-gusto-now ..
i choose faith
and diss my take on life
because i understand my finitude
i know i don't know, and i believe there is someone there that does
that cares
that loves me
i choose that
i faith that
i live that
for the sake of the God that created me to be like him
and loves me so much that he allowed himself to be created in my image .. . . .
that is a god i can serve wholeheartedly
without being overly concerned for my stuff, for my tomorrows
.. peace
Saturday, June 21, 2014
arrogance, ignorance, humility and trying to figure it all out ..
the olderer i get the more i realize how arrogant i've been assuming i can know
like if i am god
like if there's only 1 answer
like if i am god ..
maybe I'm just getting senile
recently i was involved in a discussion on the various views on sanctification
the word is related to the greek word for ' to make holy ' or ' to set apart '
the question, then was what does ' sanctification ' mean, and how does one come about it ..
my fundamentalist indoctrination went this way:
positional sanctification - the point at which someone ' accepted Jesus as their personal saviour '
progressive sanctification - the process of becoming holy as the person matures in Christ
kinda like a snapshot vs a video ..
the link here is 1 person's presentation and opinions on the commonly accepted ' 5 views '
http://www.xenos.org/ministries/crossroads/OnlineJournal/issue1/fiveview.htm
..
during the conversation it became apparent to me that this, like most of the stuff i pretend to know, is not so blackandwhite as i would like to think, not like my fundamentalist definition
it's intimately tied up in ' salvation ' as a doctrine
is there really a clear demarcation between the point and the process ?
is there a ' 2nd work of grace ', the person being filled with the Spirit at some point after ' conversion '
( note all the doctrinal words and phrases, which i've italicized,
each one eliciting a series of viewpoints )
is it possible to reach total sanctification whereby we'd never sin ?
it's tied up in redemption and it's viewpoints
salvation and it's viewpoints
( which might well be a referent to the same issue of sanctification )
justification
....
so, here i be, listening to the comments, trying to assimilate the differences in the views
and finding my self notso dogmatic, notso rocksolidsure about what i'm talking about
the old me is dying
as i open my mind to listen
is that a good thing ?
...
and then i hit the heretic's wall
what is salvation anyway
?? ?
wow !
if you'd asked me that a few years ago, i'd lead you on a Romans Road
walk you through John 3, Romans 3 and 6 .. .
and then there would be the ' sinner's prayer '
and i was dead-certain
no argument
and if you argued about it theologically you obviously were not a christian, or you were in error
i was right
.. .
some hours after the mind-numbing, wandering discussion, i asked myself this
if someone asked me ' how ' to become a christian what would i say
now
today
and i stumbled
i had to think
i had to think ?? ?
are you serious ?
..
i came to the conclusion i'd rather someone asked what were the earmarks of a christian, what identifies someone as a christian, what do i look for in a christian
than to ask me ' how ' ..
very very interesting, methinks ..
a close friend told me when i brought this thinking up that they're worried about me, about the potential deterioration of my doctrinal positioning, where i've stood all along
am i lost ?
sitting where i am right now, i'm not sure what to say
i only know that a christian looks much like jesus
and the more like jesus they are, the more of a christian they are
.... . ..... . sorry
the oft-quoted verses like apostle paul's response to the jailer in philippi , ' believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved ', really should be taken in context ..
i never thought of that before
it was so stringently doctrinaire, why look to context
the Newer Testament is written in the context of israel, judaism and the Christ advent
in those times to ' confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you shall be saved ' was predominantly a Jewish issue, in context (Romans 10)
for a jew to declare jesus as lord, to submit to baptism, was a massive statement, threatening their very life, or causing them to be disowned and disinherited by their parents
similarly, the non-jews were under roman authority
and the apparent similarity between the language of what-would-become-christianity and rome's religion was marked
to say jesus was lord meant caesar wasn't
and rome was no respecter of persons
that was rebellion-in-the-making, and to be squashed forthwith
for us gentiles today it's far, far from that
more like a .... what exactly ??
believe ?
is that like a cognitive thingy
a position
like i'm a republican or democrat ?
or i believe in climate-change, or not ?
i doubt ..
and so i wander
still
still wandering
..
i do know this
the more i resemble jesus
the more i can lay claim to being a christian
so the question ' what does it look like to be a christian ' resounds better with me
and i point you directly to Matthew 5-7
thing is, if you're doing what Jesus taught with the attitude he fostered
then you're loving
and if you're living love you're living Godly
for God is love
.. how then can a person not be accepted by God when they're living a Godly life ..
in fact I'm much more likely to say that person is a Christian than i would under my old self docrine
and if that signifies I'm a heretic, so be it
that's where my head is going. and I'm not sure it shouldn't be ..
when I get to the point where my theology cannot suffer valid testing and questioning, then my theology is my god
God is much bigger than what we say or think about God
and he can handle my fear, my doubt, my questioning, my wandering
he's not intimidated at all
in fact, methinks he rather enjoys the intimacy
even if it's out of my doubt ..
don't you?
like if i am god
like if there's only 1 answer
like if i am god ..
maybe I'm just getting senile
recently i was involved in a discussion on the various views on sanctification
the word is related to the greek word for ' to make holy ' or ' to set apart '
the question, then was what does ' sanctification ' mean, and how does one come about it ..
my fundamentalist indoctrination went this way:
positional sanctification - the point at which someone ' accepted Jesus as their personal saviour '
progressive sanctification - the process of becoming holy as the person matures in Christ
kinda like a snapshot vs a video ..
the link here is 1 person's presentation and opinions on the commonly accepted ' 5 views '
http://www.xenos.org/ministries/crossroads/OnlineJournal/issue1/fiveview.htm
..
during the conversation it became apparent to me that this, like most of the stuff i pretend to know, is not so blackandwhite as i would like to think, not like my fundamentalist definition
it's intimately tied up in ' salvation ' as a doctrine
is there really a clear demarcation between the point and the process ?
is there a ' 2nd work of grace ', the person being filled with the Spirit at some point after ' conversion '
( note all the doctrinal words and phrases, which i've italicized,
each one eliciting a series of viewpoints )
is it possible to reach total sanctification whereby we'd never sin ?
it's tied up in redemption and it's viewpoints
salvation and it's viewpoints
( which might well be a referent to the same issue of sanctification )
justification
....
so, here i be, listening to the comments, trying to assimilate the differences in the views
and finding my self notso dogmatic, notso rocksolidsure about what i'm talking about
the old me is dying
as i open my mind to listen
is that a good thing ?
...
and then i hit the heretic's wall
what is salvation anyway
?? ?
wow !
if you'd asked me that a few years ago, i'd lead you on a Romans Road
walk you through John 3, Romans 3 and 6 .. .
and then there would be the ' sinner's prayer '
and i was dead-certain
no argument
and if you argued about it theologically you obviously were not a christian, or you were in error
i was right
.. .
some hours after the mind-numbing, wandering discussion, i asked myself this
if someone asked me ' how ' to become a christian what would i say
now
today
and i stumbled
i had to think
i had to think ?? ?
are you serious ?
..
i came to the conclusion i'd rather someone asked what were the earmarks of a christian, what identifies someone as a christian, what do i look for in a christian
than to ask me ' how ' ..
very very interesting, methinks ..
a close friend told me when i brought this thinking up that they're worried about me, about the potential deterioration of my doctrinal positioning, where i've stood all along
am i lost ?
sitting where i am right now, i'm not sure what to say
i only know that a christian looks much like jesus
and the more like jesus they are, the more of a christian they are
.... . ..... . sorry
the oft-quoted verses like apostle paul's response to the jailer in philippi , ' believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved ', really should be taken in context ..
i never thought of that before
it was so stringently doctrinaire, why look to context
the Newer Testament is written in the context of israel, judaism and the Christ advent
in those times to ' confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you shall be saved ' was predominantly a Jewish issue, in context (Romans 10)
for a jew to declare jesus as lord, to submit to baptism, was a massive statement, threatening their very life, or causing them to be disowned and disinherited by their parents
similarly, the non-jews were under roman authority
and the apparent similarity between the language of what-would-become-christianity and rome's religion was marked
to say jesus was lord meant caesar wasn't
and rome was no respecter of persons
that was rebellion-in-the-making, and to be squashed forthwith
for us gentiles today it's far, far from that
more like a .... what exactly ??
believe ?
is that like a cognitive thingy
a position
like i'm a republican or democrat ?
or i believe in climate-change, or not ?
i doubt ..
and so i wander
still
still wandering
..
i do know this
the more i resemble jesus
the more i can lay claim to being a christian
so the question ' what does it look like to be a christian ' resounds better with me
and i point you directly to Matthew 5-7
thing is, if you're doing what Jesus taught with the attitude he fostered
then you're loving
and if you're living love you're living Godly
for God is love
.. how then can a person not be accepted by God when they're living a Godly life ..
in fact I'm much more likely to say that person is a Christian than i would under my old self docrine
and if that signifies I'm a heretic, so be it
that's where my head is going. and I'm not sure it shouldn't be ..
when I get to the point where my theology cannot suffer valid testing and questioning, then my theology is my god
God is much bigger than what we say or think about God
and he can handle my fear, my doubt, my questioning, my wandering
he's not intimidated at all
in fact, methinks he rather enjoys the intimacy
even if it's out of my doubt ..
don't you?
lost ..
i'm so naive
so unknowing, ignorant
and i find myself being fairly frequently shocked
and then shocked at me, at my shockness
at my naivete
i met this houseless person
surface conversations
then this morning i sat and asked them a few questions
she mentioned she had children
i asked how many
she said ... 60
...........................................................
i swallowed that
thought i'd misunderstood
tried again
similar answer
said she had multiple pregnancies each time
.... . ......... . .. ... .
her face was dead straight
she was totally serious
i was .. lost in my head
i actually tried to figure out how that was possible
for a minute or 2
...
i have so much to learn
i'm so frekin' lost
so unknowing, ignorant
and i find myself being fairly frequently shocked
and then shocked at me, at my shockness
at my naivete
i met this houseless person
surface conversations
then this morning i sat and asked them a few questions
she mentioned she had children
i asked how many
she said ... 60
...........................................................
i swallowed that
thought i'd misunderstood
tried again
similar answer
said she had multiple pregnancies each time
.... . ......... . .. ... .
her face was dead straight
she was totally serious
i was .. lost in my head
i actually tried to figure out how that was possible
for a minute or 2
...
i have so much to learn
i'm so frekin' lost
Tuesday, June 17, 2014
on women in ministry ..
a message on women in ministry ..
http://whchurch.org/sermons-media/sermon/twisted-scripture-1-timothy-2-12
http://whchurch.org/sermons-media/sermon/twisted-scripture-1-timothy-2-12
Sunday, June 15, 2014
fatherness and the mad rush to disengage malehood ..
i don't know why i chose that title ..
really
i guess it might be the constant barrage of femality and exalting womanhood ..
might i say, often at the expense of the male
sad that
how come we get to hurt in order to promote a good thing ?
why do we have to destroy in order to build up ?
so, yes, there are corrections and adjustments to be made
the male of the species has historically had the high-road while oftentimes the female has been in the background
but
ever notice how so much more has been made of mothers' day than fathers' day ?
ever notice the trend to diss the male in the tv ads, to make the man out to be a wuss, a ' duhh ' idiot ?
ever notice the regular bombing of the male gender to make the point of ' woman '
? ?
it's on my mind today to honour fathers
in the person of my father
a man that, in my mind, stands out as an example, at least to me, of what i should have been all along
i failed at that in many many ways
and i regret every failure
my children bear the brunt of that in their own life-forming
they have to move on in the face of my screwups to make lives of their own
to themselves parent
to undo me in their own experiences of fathering and mothering
and i wish them much success in that ..
...
so, my bad, and i'm sorry for it
and then there's my dad
kenneth gordon
a man among men in my eyes
a genuine person
such that whenever you met him in whatever circumstance, you met the same person
unpretentious
soft of heart
kindly dispositioned to all
especially to children
simple in lifestyle
constantly trying to understand the scriptures
with barely any schooling
an example to me
i'm working on it
thanks to you, dad
happy fathers' day
really
i guess it might be the constant barrage of femality and exalting womanhood ..
might i say, often at the expense of the male
sad that
how come we get to hurt in order to promote a good thing ?
why do we have to destroy in order to build up ?
so, yes, there are corrections and adjustments to be made
the male of the species has historically had the high-road while oftentimes the female has been in the background
but
ever notice how so much more has been made of mothers' day than fathers' day ?
ever notice the trend to diss the male in the tv ads, to make the man out to be a wuss, a ' duhh ' idiot ?
ever notice the regular bombing of the male gender to make the point of ' woman '
? ?
it's on my mind today to honour fathers
in the person of my father
a man that, in my mind, stands out as an example, at least to me, of what i should have been all along
i failed at that in many many ways
and i regret every failure
my children bear the brunt of that in their own life-forming
they have to move on in the face of my screwups to make lives of their own
to themselves parent
to undo me in their own experiences of fathering and mothering
and i wish them much success in that ..
...
so, my bad, and i'm sorry for it
and then there's my dad
kenneth gordon
a man among men in my eyes
a genuine person
such that whenever you met him in whatever circumstance, you met the same person
unpretentious
soft of heart
kindly dispositioned to all
especially to children
simple in lifestyle
constantly trying to understand the scriptures
with barely any schooling
an example to me
i'm working on it
thanks to you, dad
happy fathers' day
Wednesday, June 11, 2014
the houseless class-ifying the houseless ..
there's this guy
probably young-20's
whenever i saw him he was stoned senseless
riding his bike and slamming into walls
pausing to rifle through a garbage can ..
he, in particular, caused me to wonder how i could ever be of service to someone like that ..
how do i even communicate with someone who's not even mentally here ?
yesterday he was around when i opened the doors at 4.00 a.m.
a rest-place for street people
a place of warmth and food and sleep-if-you-want
of safety from the dangers of streetlife
and for the first time i got to have a cognisant conversation
even though he was struggling somewhat for sentences
i welcomed him
and then
another houseless person arrived
and began to scold him
told him they could see he was high
" just sit down and relax, man "
.. right in the middle of my talking to the dude
actually interrupting me
i did not pay attention to it
difficult as that was
i tried to keep him engaged
allow him to speak
wanting him to feel comfortable and relaxed in the face of his normal experiences of people's regular dislike and disgust at him
allthewhile the other person was making it more and more difficult
i said something, finally, and the accuser's response was that if he was going to be staying there, they were leaving
i moved into the kitchen to attend to a couple things
and by the time i returned the guy i had been talking to had left
.... .. .
there's stratification among the homeless
even houseless people rank themselves
look down their noses at the other houseless as lessthan, lowerthan ..
the other
it's not just a matter anymore of society as a whole segmenting
stratifying
creating classes of uppers and lowers
the houseless themselves class-ify
what's with that ?
i was enraged
for a while
i lost an opportunity to be there for someone noone wants around
a druggy
a thief
dirty
lost in some drug-induced otherworld
needy
o, so needy
and i had a chance to be there for him
and allow him some space to be
i pray he'll be back
and somehow
someway
i have to defend the right of every person
each person
to be
even as they are
even when they're the lowest of the low
they're people too
..
reminds me of a statement Jesus made
' inasmuch as you did it to the least of these
you did it to me
for me '
the least of these ..
i need to be there for the least of these
probably young-20's
whenever i saw him he was stoned senseless
riding his bike and slamming into walls
pausing to rifle through a garbage can ..
he, in particular, caused me to wonder how i could ever be of service to someone like that ..
how do i even communicate with someone who's not even mentally here ?
yesterday he was around when i opened the doors at 4.00 a.m.
a rest-place for street people
a place of warmth and food and sleep-if-you-want
of safety from the dangers of streetlife
and for the first time i got to have a cognisant conversation
even though he was struggling somewhat for sentences
i welcomed him
and then
another houseless person arrived
and began to scold him
told him they could see he was high
" just sit down and relax, man "
.. right in the middle of my talking to the dude
actually interrupting me
i did not pay attention to it
difficult as that was
i tried to keep him engaged
allow him to speak
wanting him to feel comfortable and relaxed in the face of his normal experiences of people's regular dislike and disgust at him
allthewhile the other person was making it more and more difficult
i said something, finally, and the accuser's response was that if he was going to be staying there, they were leaving
i moved into the kitchen to attend to a couple things
and by the time i returned the guy i had been talking to had left
.... .. .
there's stratification among the homeless
even houseless people rank themselves
look down their noses at the other houseless as lessthan, lowerthan ..
the other
it's not just a matter anymore of society as a whole segmenting
stratifying
creating classes of uppers and lowers
the houseless themselves class-ify
what's with that ?
i was enraged
for a while
i lost an opportunity to be there for someone noone wants around
a druggy
a thief
dirty
lost in some drug-induced otherworld
needy
o, so needy
and i had a chance to be there for him
and allow him some space to be
i pray he'll be back
and somehow
someway
i have to defend the right of every person
each person
to be
even as they are
even when they're the lowest of the low
they're people too
..
reminds me of a statement Jesus made
' inasmuch as you did it to the least of these
you did it to me
for me '
the least of these ..
i need to be there for the least of these
present ..
a friend made a comment recently
reset my think
sometimes, in the pursuit of the Kingdom, we get lost
it seems the ' plan ' isn't working out
the numbers aren't there
the money isn't there
the commitment isn't there
and we begin to question ourselves ( a good thing, by the way )
thing is
God was never into numbers
he moves often with the few
he strikes out with the underprivileged as his workers
the ordinary
the peons
... . .
who am i trying to impress ?
me ?
you ?
my accomplished friends in christian ministry ?
God ?
God is not impressed by my impressioning
he's impressed by my obedience
by my commitment
more than anything, by my love
.. .
maybe i'm not seeing far enough ahead
being human
maybe my expectations are based on data and books i read on how-to and what-to-shoot-for and what-to-expect and here's-how-to-measure-your-success-in-christian-ministry ..
in that, i miss the boat
God has not called us to data and numbers and success-measuring-sticks
he has called us to love him, and to love our neighbour
to be committed to him and to them
and to be faithful, as in full-of-faith
to persist when all seems lost
to regularly question ourselves and our motivations
to follow Jesus even when that looks like a i'm-doing-this-alone thing
i owe noone an explanation for my life
for why i'm doing what i'm doing
or how i'm doing it
only God
the results are not mine to consider
they are the purview of God alone
.. i'm not God
. . . . . .
and there was i
mulling over me
questioning my motivations
wondering whothehelldoithinkiam
seeing little result
...
and my friend said this
be there, right where you are, in that moment, fully committed to the person you are with ..
in short
be present
the upshot of that is
don't count
don't look to cure it all
don't look to be the solution for everyone's situation
stop grading myself
just be there
right there
with that person
right then
almost as if there was no more important person in the world right then
as if they were all that mattered ..
wise
i must maintain the otherworld outlook of Jesus
and diss the ' results '
diss the analysis
head for the person
as in singular
look for the one
God allows me to meet today
and be there for them
them only at that time
noone else
be there in the moment
allow my spirit to be influenced by the Spirit of God
and be a channel for the Spirit to blow
to breathe life into that situation
into that person
just then
just there
be present
that's all ..
that's all
reset my think
sometimes, in the pursuit of the Kingdom, we get lost
it seems the ' plan ' isn't working out
the numbers aren't there
the money isn't there
the commitment isn't there
and we begin to question ourselves ( a good thing, by the way )
thing is
God was never into numbers
he moves often with the few
he strikes out with the underprivileged as his workers
the ordinary
the peons
... . .
who am i trying to impress ?
me ?
you ?
my accomplished friends in christian ministry ?
God ?
God is not impressed by my impressioning
he's impressed by my obedience
by my commitment
more than anything, by my love
.. .
maybe i'm not seeing far enough ahead
being human
maybe my expectations are based on data and books i read on how-to and what-to-shoot-for and what-to-expect and here's-how-to-measure-your-success-in-christian-ministry ..
in that, i miss the boat
God has not called us to data and numbers and success-measuring-sticks
he has called us to love him, and to love our neighbour
to be committed to him and to them
and to be faithful, as in full-of-faith
to persist when all seems lost
to regularly question ourselves and our motivations
to follow Jesus even when that looks like a i'm-doing-this-alone thing
i owe noone an explanation for my life
for why i'm doing what i'm doing
or how i'm doing it
only God
the results are not mine to consider
they are the purview of God alone
.. i'm not God
. . . . . .
and there was i
mulling over me
questioning my motivations
wondering whothehelldoithinkiam
seeing little result
...
and my friend said this
be there, right where you are, in that moment, fully committed to the person you are with ..
in short
be present
the upshot of that is
don't count
don't look to cure it all
don't look to be the solution for everyone's situation
stop grading myself
just be there
right there
with that person
right then
almost as if there was no more important person in the world right then
as if they were all that mattered ..
wise
i must maintain the otherworld outlook of Jesus
and diss the ' results '
diss the analysis
head for the person
as in singular
look for the one
God allows me to meet today
and be there for them
them only at that time
noone else
be there in the moment
allow my spirit to be influenced by the Spirit of God
and be a channel for the Spirit to blow
to breathe life into that situation
into that person
just then
just there
be present
that's all ..
that's all
Friday, June 6, 2014
the " ?'s " . . ..
I'm constantly questioning my self ..
you ?
spiritually
motivations
what do I believe about this or that issue in Christian doctrine
why am I doing the things I'm doing with my life
.. .
i used to run to the biblical condemnation that a double minded person is unstable in all their ways, and then challenge my self to concrete this or that
after all, what kind of faith is it that sports " ?'s "
faith should be grounded, settled, immovable, rock-solid ..
no ?
.. . . .
well, i've grown into the " ?'s " ..
i remember well using a finepoint ball pen, or a 0.5 veryfine in my later years
and those nagging " ?'s " i had gingerly inscribed in the margins of my bibles ..
always with a pause, always bearing it's own " ? " in the doing
almost as if it was desecratory
..
but if ever i got a new bible, those " ?'s " reappeared
dogging me
my demons, challenging my slow brain
my lagging faith
.. why couldn't i settle on what the passage meant ??
.. .
then one day, a well-meaning pastor advised me to stop
he said if one of my children ever saw them it might cause them to think i distrusted my Bible .. .
i let that one slide
i let it gestate a few years .. while i kept putting those dread " ?'s " in the margins
wondering all the while why i was so ' hard ears ' , why i couldn't simply accept the common theology on this or that passage, or why the wording didn't make sense to me ..
.. or perhaps the Spirit was not in my study efforts - as in, left me to get it on my own ..
. .. . .
brings me to this ..
last Sunday the discussion revolved around Philippians 2 .. and i got stuck again
same place
again .. .
and then, at bible study we were discussing Christology and guess where we ended-up .. Philippians 2
..... . . . . . .
the extraordinary poetic telling of God's descent into humanity and suffering and death, and his subsequent exaltation to the name-above-all-names in the Philippian letter cries for attention ..
at least to me it does ..
it is the core message of scripture, the example to be emulated - God takes human form, ' the form of a servant ', to reconcile humanity at large, to bring peace and unity to this world, and eventually to the cosmos ..
and apostle paul wants us to take-on that mindset as our own ..
besides being the mindset of Rabbi Jesus, which as his disciple, i am to make mine
unity among the Christ-family is paramount, division and schism to be eschewed at all costs ..
God is one, and the Body of Christ is one ..
unity is key with Paul
in one version it runs like this ..
.. make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
( philippians 2. 2-11 )
massive statement .. incredible really ..
the part that bothered me is - Christ Jesus: who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
' used to his own advantage ' ??
as in selfish ?
i used the KJV back then, and it's rendering was - who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
' robbery ' ??
how does that compute ?
the NRSV renders it, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, ..
' exploited ' ?
what has always bothered me was, how does pre-incarnate Jesus ever think his divinity was something not to be used to his advantage
or exploited
or why would he think it wasn't ' robbery ' ..
i was confounded
for years
didn't fit the context
and context is key ..
using something to his own advantage sounds rather selfish
robbery sounds rather unGodly
exploiting himself sounds rather vain ..
if he's God, he's God - nothing to be exploited or taken advantage of
thing is, the word used is used only one time in scripture, and that makes it doubly troubly
the greek word, according to those in-the-know, carries the thought
' robbery '
' something to be grasped, or seized '
' spoil (as in the spoils of war), an object of eager desire, prize '
.. . . . .
my understanding of the passage is that the pre-incarnate Jesus didn't see his divinity as something he couldn't relinquish
which is not the same as saying ' something to be grasped ' ..
the semantics may seem to be picky
but this is Jesus i'm talking about
and if there's one thing we have to do, it's get Jesus
so then, my take on it is kinda like this ..
Jesus, as God, did not fall-back on his divinity when considering the plight of fallen and vulnerable humanity ..
he didn't consider it as impossible, or too much of a sacrifice
he didn't consider it a restraining factor ..
or the thing that defined him ..
think on that a minute ..
Jesus, God by nature, whose identity is wrapped-up in God, did not allow his Godness ( as we understand divinity ) to ultimately define him ..
. . ... . . i'm not even sure that makes sense . .
he gave up his identity as God ..
that translates into giving up what defines him as God ..
that, particularly that, tastes potently heretical
I almost can't believe I had the thought .. .. . .
what we consider to be the God-attributes did not limit pre-incarnate Jesus
did not lock him into this or that option ..
he stepped out of that skin and took on humanskin ..
that there rocks my boat ..
i can meditate on that for a long long time ..
a loooooooong time ..
..... . . . . . . .
he put it aside, relinquished it
and steeped off his Godthrone
moving towards human
for human
away from his innate Godness
( at least in the sense we tend to think of Godity .. )
after all, he, Creator himself, created human in Godimage, in Godlikeness
how could he desert them, his creatures that resembled him, that he made to be so .. ?
and now Creator is made in manimage .. . . . . ... .
this is he, the Word ..
in the beginning the Word was there with God; in fact he was God.
all tbings were made by the Word; not one thing has been made apart from him ..
this same Word ..
The Word became flesh and took up residence among us.
We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
( John 1.1ff )
if there ever was an intimate, vulnerablizing, sacrificial act, driven by pure love, this was it ..
this was it
and God did it .. of all people to be doing something about all the wrongdoing that was done against him ..
he was the abused, the disrespected
he takes the steps towards reconciliation ..
... . . . .
i have walked on holy ground here, and recognize the magnitude of what i've said
but i can't walk away from it again, leaving that ' ? ' with no response
although there may remain a ' ? ' after this is said and done ..
.. . . . .
several years ago, it hit me that the immutable ( unchanging/unchangable ) God had indeed changed, and that fundamentally: he had become human, never to return to his former state ..
get that ..
it is a man that i will meet someday in the Kingdom
the Man i follow
a human ..
when i bit into that, it exploded my soulmind
made me feel very appreciative of what God had done for humanity, for me
and i haven't gotten over it
this blog takes that a step further
and i'm likewise astounded
as i think over it, i'm made to feel very small
that the Word not only changed, and changed forever,
but that he relinquished his divine nature as we understand it
to stand with
and for
humanity
for ever human
with us
for us
man ! how does the mind swallow that ??
how indeed ..
here's my thinking on the text
although i have absolutely no knowledge of Greek, Koine Greek etc.
.. fill up my joy by being likeminded, sharing love, with a united goal. Don't live a life of self-pride and ambition, but of humility. Value others more than you do yourself; don't be concerned for yourself only, but for others too. That was Jesus' mindset; adopt it for yourselves.
Though he naturally existed in Godform, identical with God, he did not consider that identity to be something he couldn't relinquish. On the contrary, he voided that identity and took on the form of a servant by becoming human, taking humanform. Identified as human, he humbled himself through obedience, even to the point of death, and that on a cross.
Because of this God has highly exalted his [ human ] name above every other name, such that at the name ' Jesus ' the knee of everyone in Heaven, in Earth and under Earth would bow, and their tongues confess " Jesus is Lord ", bringing glory to God.
..... . . .
i have issues with this thinking ..
?'s .. .. . .
- the fact that God changed, became human, does not necessarily negate his divinity, or at least some aspects thereof
- how does relinquishing his divinity relate to his comment to Phillip that ' you've seen me, so you've seen the father ', and ' i and the father are one ', and that the name of the person on the white horse in The Revelation to John is The Word of God ( referent to John 1.1, in the beginning was the Word ) ,
- how dies that compute with his Godpower as at Hebrews chapter 1, sustaining the universe ?
etc etc
..
i rest this for now
and that's ok
knowledge will not be complete until ' that which is perfect is come ' ..
as a follow-on to this
please read 1Corinthians 15.20-28
in the final age when all is finally reconciled, Jesus will be in submission to God ..
shalom
postscript ..
someone raised the valid question: why is this so important ? what difference does it make ?
my response: to think that God would do this for humanity, for me, is humbling, and brings me farther along the road to understanding somewhat how far God went, and hopefully, energizing me to rightly esteem who i am in the grandschemeofthings, .. nothing to shout about - a servant of God, and follower of Jesus, whose life is worth nothing apart from that understanding, and energizing me to worship this God ..
you ?
spiritually
motivations
what do I believe about this or that issue in Christian doctrine
why am I doing the things I'm doing with my life
.. .
i used to run to the biblical condemnation that a double minded person is unstable in all their ways, and then challenge my self to concrete this or that
after all, what kind of faith is it that sports " ?'s "
faith should be grounded, settled, immovable, rock-solid ..
no ?
.. . . .
well, i've grown into the " ?'s " ..
i remember well using a finepoint ball pen, or a 0.5 veryfine in my later years
and those nagging " ?'s " i had gingerly inscribed in the margins of my bibles ..
always with a pause, always bearing it's own " ? " in the doing
almost as if it was desecratory
..
but if ever i got a new bible, those " ?'s " reappeared
dogging me
my demons, challenging my slow brain
my lagging faith
.. why couldn't i settle on what the passage meant ??
.. .
then one day, a well-meaning pastor advised me to stop
he said if one of my children ever saw them it might cause them to think i distrusted my Bible .. .
i let that one slide
i let it gestate a few years .. while i kept putting those dread " ?'s " in the margins
wondering all the while why i was so ' hard ears ' , why i couldn't simply accept the common theology on this or that passage, or why the wording didn't make sense to me ..
.. or perhaps the Spirit was not in my study efforts - as in, left me to get it on my own ..
. .. . .
brings me to this ..
last Sunday the discussion revolved around Philippians 2 .. and i got stuck again
same place
again .. .
and then, at bible study we were discussing Christology and guess where we ended-up .. Philippians 2
..... . . . . . .
the extraordinary poetic telling of God's descent into humanity and suffering and death, and his subsequent exaltation to the name-above-all-names in the Philippian letter cries for attention ..
at least to me it does ..
it is the core message of scripture, the example to be emulated - God takes human form, ' the form of a servant ', to reconcile humanity at large, to bring peace and unity to this world, and eventually to the cosmos ..
and apostle paul wants us to take-on that mindset as our own ..
besides being the mindset of Rabbi Jesus, which as his disciple, i am to make mine
unity among the Christ-family is paramount, division and schism to be eschewed at all costs ..
God is one, and the Body of Christ is one ..
unity is key with Paul
in one version it runs like this ..
.. make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
( philippians 2. 2-11 )
massive statement .. incredible really ..
the part that bothered me is - Christ Jesus: who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
' used to his own advantage ' ??
as in selfish ?
i used the KJV back then, and it's rendering was - who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
' robbery ' ??
how does that compute ?
the NRSV renders it, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, ..
' exploited ' ?
what has always bothered me was, how does pre-incarnate Jesus ever think his divinity was something not to be used to his advantage
or exploited
or why would he think it wasn't ' robbery ' ..
i was confounded
for years
didn't fit the context
and context is key ..
using something to his own advantage sounds rather selfish
robbery sounds rather unGodly
exploiting himself sounds rather vain ..
if he's God, he's God - nothing to be exploited or taken advantage of
thing is, the word used is used only one time in scripture, and that makes it doubly troubly
the greek word, according to those in-the-know, carries the thought
' robbery '
' something to be grasped, or seized '
' spoil (as in the spoils of war), an object of eager desire, prize '
.. . . . .
my understanding of the passage is that the pre-incarnate Jesus didn't see his divinity as something he couldn't relinquish
which is not the same as saying ' something to be grasped ' ..
the semantics may seem to be picky
but this is Jesus i'm talking about
and if there's one thing we have to do, it's get Jesus
so then, my take on it is kinda like this ..
Jesus, as God, did not fall-back on his divinity when considering the plight of fallen and vulnerable humanity ..
he didn't consider it as impossible, or too much of a sacrifice
he didn't consider it a restraining factor ..
or the thing that defined him ..
think on that a minute ..
Jesus, God by nature, whose identity is wrapped-up in God, did not allow his Godness ( as we understand divinity ) to ultimately define him ..
. . ... . . i'm not even sure that makes sense . .
he gave up his identity as God ..
that translates into giving up what defines him as God ..
that, particularly that, tastes potently heretical
I almost can't believe I had the thought .. .. . .
what we consider to be the God-attributes did not limit pre-incarnate Jesus
did not lock him into this or that option ..
he stepped out of that skin and took on humanskin ..
that there rocks my boat ..
i can meditate on that for a long long time ..
a loooooooong time ..
..... . . . . . . .
he put it aside, relinquished it
and steeped off his Godthrone
moving towards human
for human
away from his innate Godness
( at least in the sense we tend to think of Godity .. )
after all, he, Creator himself, created human in Godimage, in Godlikeness
how could he desert them, his creatures that resembled him, that he made to be so .. ?
and now Creator is made in manimage .. . . . . ... .
this is he, the Word ..
in the beginning the Word was there with God; in fact he was God.
all tbings were made by the Word; not one thing has been made apart from him ..
this same Word ..
The Word became flesh and took up residence among us.
We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
( John 1.1ff )
if there ever was an intimate, vulnerablizing, sacrificial act, driven by pure love, this was it ..
this was it
and God did it .. of all people to be doing something about all the wrongdoing that was done against him ..
he was the abused, the disrespected
he takes the steps towards reconciliation ..
... . . . .
i have walked on holy ground here, and recognize the magnitude of what i've said
but i can't walk away from it again, leaving that ' ? ' with no response
although there may remain a ' ? ' after this is said and done ..
.. . . . .
several years ago, it hit me that the immutable ( unchanging/unchangable ) God had indeed changed, and that fundamentally: he had become human, never to return to his former state ..get that ..
it is a man that i will meet someday in the Kingdom
the Man i follow
a human ..
when i bit into that, it exploded my soulmind
made me feel very appreciative of what God had done for humanity, for me
and i haven't gotten over it
this blog takes that a step further
and i'm likewise astounded
as i think over it, i'm made to feel very small
that the Word not only changed, and changed forever,
but that he relinquished his divine nature as we understand it
to stand with
and for
humanity
for ever human
with us
for us
man ! how does the mind swallow that ??
how indeed ..
here's my thinking on the text
although i have absolutely no knowledge of Greek, Koine Greek etc.
.. fill up my joy by being likeminded, sharing love, with a united goal. Don't live a life of self-pride and ambition, but of humility. Value others more than you do yourself; don't be concerned for yourself only, but for others too. That was Jesus' mindset; adopt it for yourselves.
Though he naturally existed in Godform, identical with God, he did not consider that identity to be something he couldn't relinquish. On the contrary, he voided that identity and took on the form of a servant by becoming human, taking humanform. Identified as human, he humbled himself through obedience, even to the point of death, and that on a cross.
Because of this God has highly exalted his [ human ] name above every other name, such that at the name ' Jesus ' the knee of everyone in Heaven, in Earth and under Earth would bow, and their tongues confess " Jesus is Lord ", bringing glory to God.
..... . . .
i have issues with this thinking ..
?'s .. .. . .
- the fact that God changed, became human, does not necessarily negate his divinity, or at least some aspects thereof
- how does relinquishing his divinity relate to his comment to Phillip that ' you've seen me, so you've seen the father ', and ' i and the father are one ', and that the name of the person on the white horse in The Revelation to John is The Word of God ( referent to John 1.1, in the beginning was the Word ) ,
- how dies that compute with his Godpower as at Hebrews chapter 1, sustaining the universe ?
etc etc
..
i rest this for now
and that's ok
knowledge will not be complete until ' that which is perfect is come ' ..
as a follow-on to this
please read 1Corinthians 15.20-28
in the final age when all is finally reconciled, Jesus will be in submission to God ..
shalom
postscript ..
someone raised the valid question: why is this so important ? what difference does it make ?
my response: to think that God would do this for humanity, for me, is humbling, and brings me farther along the road to understanding somewhat how far God went, and hopefully, energizing me to rightly esteem who i am in the grandschemeofthings, .. nothing to shout about - a servant of God, and follower of Jesus, whose life is worth nothing apart from that understanding, and energizing me to worship this God ..
good read - the Christus Victor approach to the atonement ..
http://reknew.org/2014/06/atonement-what-is-the-christus-victor-view/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=atonement-what-is-the-christus-victor-view
this is the view of the atonement i hold to
it's a short read, and a good description of the issue
this is the view of the atonement i hold to
it's a short read, and a good description of the issue
Wednesday, June 4, 2014
Sunday, June 1, 2014
today in history ..
it's a good day
a special day
a day i hope to remember with joy and some sense of moving the kingdom forward for Lord Jesus
i'm involved in the startup of a new kinda church thingy
and it feels good
it resonates with my spirit
the idea is to open church to all comers
regardless
and to welcome and embrace all
regardless
an interesting concept
instituted by none other than Jesus himeslf, the man i disciple to ..
and if my math still works, since he's the one who said ' i will build my church ' , then i figure anything that moves in his direction ought to be a celebration of christianity ..
he was the champion of the underclassed
the source of hope for the hopeless
pathfinder for the out-of-the-way
healer for the sick
interpreter of the Law for the lawyers
feeder of hungry
embracer of the female
liberator of the demon-possessed
rebel in the face of Rome
preacher of good news
anything that speaks to his Way and moves in his direction has my support
and i'm all in
regardless of the ' shock ' to some
regardless of the comeback it might generate
regardless of those that walk out
regardless of the naysayers
there've always been naysayers and bullies and lawkeepers and deniers and persecuters and those who think that pomp and presentation make the ' church ' more godly ..
all that really muddies the waters ..
Jesus was clear , if in a parabolic way
blinding with the light he brought to our understanding
jarring with his words of corrective justification to the religious and the sticklers and the do-rights
shocking with his embrace of all, particularly the excluded
..
particularly the excluded ..
and that is precisely where we are headed
for Jesus is lord of all
all
not
caucasian only
not
' decent ' only
not
religious only
not
' straight ' only
anti-imperial
anti-hate
anti-class
anti-power
anti-violence
anti-the things that produce linesinthesand
when a movement smells and tastes and feels and sounds like that
i see it as a push against the wickedness of this world system
and a push against the far-too-often wickedness of the ' church ' in all it's bloody enforcement
a standup against oppression and subjugation and classification
and i smile for the excitement i feel for the unknown
for what's to come ..
anything that challenges the Satan and the dark spiritual powers-that-be in their quest for dominance sends chills of excitement up my soul's spine, and calls for my in-ness
especially when it includes the excluded ..
especially then
'cause Jesus came to set the captive free
free ..
i'm into freeness
in Jesus' name
a special day
a day i hope to remember with joy and some sense of moving the kingdom forward for Lord Jesus
i'm involved in the startup of a new kinda church thingy
and it feels good
it resonates with my spirit
the idea is to open church to all comers
regardless
and to welcome and embrace all
regardless
an interesting concept
instituted by none other than Jesus himeslf, the man i disciple to ..
and if my math still works, since he's the one who said ' i will build my church ' , then i figure anything that moves in his direction ought to be a celebration of christianity ..
he was the champion of the underclassed
the source of hope for the hopeless
pathfinder for the out-of-the-way
healer for the sick
interpreter of the Law for the lawyers
feeder of hungry
embracer of the female
liberator of the demon-possessed
rebel in the face of Rome
preacher of good news
anything that speaks to his Way and moves in his direction has my support
and i'm all in
regardless of the ' shock ' to some
regardless of the comeback it might generate
regardless of those that walk out
regardless of the naysayers
there've always been naysayers and bullies and lawkeepers and deniers and persecuters and those who think that pomp and presentation make the ' church ' more godly ..
all that really muddies the waters ..
Jesus was clear , if in a parabolic way
blinding with the light he brought to our understanding
jarring with his words of corrective justification to the religious and the sticklers and the do-rights
shocking with his embrace of all, particularly the excluded
..
particularly the excluded ..
and that is precisely where we are headed
for Jesus is lord of all
all
not
caucasian only
not
' decent ' only
not
religious only
not
' straight ' only
anti-imperial
anti-hate
anti-class
anti-power
anti-violence
anti-the things that produce linesinthesand
when a movement smells and tastes and feels and sounds like that
i see it as a push against the wickedness of this world system
and a push against the far-too-often wickedness of the ' church ' in all it's bloody enforcement
a standup against oppression and subjugation and classification
and i smile for the excitement i feel for the unknown
for what's to come ..
anything that challenges the Satan and the dark spiritual powers-that-be in their quest for dominance sends chills of excitement up my soul's spine, and calls for my in-ness
especially when it includes the excluded ..
especially then'cause Jesus came to set the captive free
free ..
i'm into freeness
in Jesus' name
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